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Abolish the NIHRC
by beano 
on 18 Oct 2007 at 13:24. Categories: Direct Rule, Republicans, Politics, Devolved Government, Gaelic / Irish language It's past time the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission was abolished. It was a waste of time and money when it was set up and it's a waste of time and money now.
The Human Rights Commissioner Monica McWilliams helpfully demonstrated this point for me when she asked the Northern Ireland Office of the government to go over the heads of our oh so wonderful democratically [sic] elected executive and assembly at Stormont and implement legislation on the Irish [sic] language on the spurious basis of a little-known piece of decidedly dodgy European Union bureaucracy called the Framework Convention for the Protection of National Minorities.
Assuming we accept that Irish constitutes a "national minority" in Northern Ireland (or, more likely, the United Kingdom) they (we) are not disadvantaged by not having our car tax forms available in Gaelic which none of us speak as a first language anyway. We are not denied access to public services because we all speak and understand English as a first language (despite the efforts of some to create language barriers). We would all, I am certain, be much better at defending ourselves against police charges in court using English than broken Gaelic.
Ms McWilliams is not doing Gaelic any favours by trying to have it imposed on the people of Northern Ireland. She was a supporter of the Good Friday Agreement and that means supporting whatever form of "democracy" it is that we have because of it, not running to central government every time they do something she doesn't like. By couhcing support for the language in terms of "rights" she's making the same mistake* of Sinn Fein and some other language "enthusiasts" in Northern Ireland.
Follow up:
Gaelic has an important place in Northern Irish society, but that place is not in civic society, not in government. The language is a significant part of cultural life here (especially if you're interested in geography or history) and should be respected accordingly. I'd like to see it explained where place names originated on somewhere more than just a hobbyists web page, useful though they can be (perhaps "Welcome to..." signs would be an appropriate starting point?). However even small measures like these will be opposed if people fear Northern Ireland will end up wasting huge chunks of it's already overstretched budget pandering to Gaelic language "enthusiasts" and pointlessly translating all sorts of government forms and road/office signs, and that would be a real shame.
If Monica McWilliams can't find something more productive to do to earn her public salary, I think it's time she did the decent thing: recommend the closure of her office. Better yet, Peter Robinson's efficiency unit could close the office down and send out a warning that those quangos found to be wasting public cash will be wrapped up.
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19 comments
Any sensible point you were trying to make about bureaucratising the Irish language was ruined by your somewhat bigoted tone.
If you had just written your 2nd last paragraph and then left it at that...
There is no doubt that the Irish Language lobby have done themselves no favours by the aggressive tone of their argument, berating everyone who disagrees with them as bigots whilst allowing their position to be mainly advanced by Sinn Fein.
As for Monica McWilliams, the place for women like her is baking buns for Women's Institute sales. She's a well meaning joke who knows as much about politics as my arse knows about snipe shooting.
What's the difference?? Its a fair question.
And try not to make a typically cowardly link to the IRA, as they have existed for 100 years and the language has been about for at least 2,000.
If you don;t believe me, tune in to TG4 and see how many provo loving programmes it displays.
I don't think Ros na Run falls into this category, but I could imagine a typically paranoid unionists watching it and thinking they were hatching a plot against "Our Wee Country"!
Fair point. Bigoted was the wrong word - I retract that. "Predictably one-sided" or "selectively philistine" are perhaps better phrases.
My main bone of contention is re "Irish [sic] language". Now, I've seen this (extremist) view before, but it still baffles me that people can propagate it with a straight face.
Dan, firstly people in parts of Scotland and Wales actually speak the languages that are protected in those parts of Her Majesty's realm. I don't get TG4 and, shockingly, have no burning desire to.
"Gaelic has an important place in Northern Irish society,"
That's predictably one-sided? You should really have a conversation with your garden variety prod some day. Then you'd hear 'predictably one-sided'.
TG4 is freely available in Belfast by the way. Don't be afraid now, its only a language. It won't bite you!!
Until 1997, the only time the majority of Unionists would have heard Irish, it would have been from the latest statement from P O'Neill (definitely no relation) or yobs shouting T.A.L as the latest sectarian scuffle broke out.
That doesn't make it a "provo-language", but it has built a very firm link in many minds that the language is for one side of the community only, especially as many of those in the vanguard of its promotion seem to be from the self-same organisation which was abusing it for political purposes during The Troubles.
Break that Sinn Fein connection, start moving it outside its present political ghetto-stress why its culturally valuable for all the community.
Throwing money and legislation at the language won't ensure its survival, there is a huge new "non-traditional" market of potential speakers in NI- start trying to get them on board and it will have a future.
Now that's just silly.
Firstly, of course English is the working language of Ireland. That's not the point (as you well know).
The historic language of Ireland - Irish - has different dialects (some of which are now extinct). In the Scottish islands they still speak a variation of Irish (Scots Gaelic) that the Scots brought over with them from Ireland. Neither of these facts mean there is no Irish language.
Polish, Slovakian and Czech (among others) are all very similar. Does that mean that none of these nations has a language - they all speak "Slavic".
I'm an Irish-speaking Dubliner, so I know my perspective will be different, even to an Irish-speaking Ulsterman (be they Nationalist or even Unionist, as I know many are).
Despite that, however, if Unionists see Irish as the code-language of Republicans, what is the harm in making it official? Are you not supposed to be equal now? Or is that just a face you put on for the rest of the world, to pretend that the Troubles are all over? Making Irish official wouldn't mean making Unionists learn it, does it?
You are of course right in saying that 95% of people living on the island of Ireland use English as their everyday language. For me, that is truly heartbreaking, but I feel Mr. Poots has now made it harder for the language to survive in NI, and I feel sorry for all Irish-speakers there now.
I'm well aware that, largely thanks to government efforts, it's still struggling by in the Republic.
1) "If you say that Gaelic is used and abused by Republicans why dont you try and change that."
We (collectively) generally just don't care that much and have no interest in learning it. I actually (personally) wouldn't mind, but my motivation is not that strong and to be honest I would probably opt for French or Spanish or Japanese first.
2) "If Nationalists and republicans are will to learn about the ornage order "
Nationalists and republicans seem more happy spitting vile and abuse at the Orange Order than learning about them (not to mention burning down the Orange halls). Just look at any of the OO-related threads on Slugger.
3) "as an Irishman why do you dismiss your own past."
I am no less Irish because I do not consider ability to speak Gaelic as a central pivot of my culture.
4) "Why does france not get all students to start learning english as france is not used internationally for business."
Firstly, French in France is in no way comparable to Gaelic in Northern Ireland. Secondly, I'm sure the majority of, if not all, students in French schools learn English as well as French.
5) "to dismiss you rown native language is stupid,"
native, n, sing: belonging to one by birth;
My own native language is English, thank you. If Gaelic was my "native" language I wouldn't have to learn it.
Let me make clear, I have no issue with anyone who wants to learn the language, who am I to stop them even if I wanted to (which I don't). I just don't see it as the government's place to get involved, especially not when they're so pitifully poor at most of the other things they attempt to do.
Check christy's site at
www.christywalsh.com
Actually its slowly dawning on a lot of people in the Republic that much of these “government efforts” have done the language a lot more harm than good.
But one aspect you havent really touched on though is the way Gaelic is used (Particularly through "bilingual" streetsigns) in some places to “mark out territory”.
I see what you are saying, Mike, but that's not always the case. In Downpatrick they have had Irish signs up on the streets for years. I don't think this is a case of "marking out territory" so much as a genuine attempt to give a cultural background to the placenames in the area.
The last time I was in the Highlands, they had started putting bilingual signs on road signs. Now, no-one has spoken Scots Gaelic in that part of the Highlands for a couple of centuries at least but it provides the natives with a background to the original placenames/history of their area - plus, from a tourist perspective, it looks good.
Reg, you're right and it does get used in 2 different ways.
There may be an argument for something like that on "Welcome To ..." signs. That seems fair enough, but on ordinary street signs?
I can't avoid thinking of the one on the Andersonstown Road. There's nobody going to convince me that "Ru Baile Bothar Andersun" or whatever it is gives anything remotely resembling historical context.
I quite like the idea of knowing where the names of places come from, and the few I know I've always found at least interesting (thinking of Lisburn and Lisnagarvey, Carrickfergus etc.)
It'd be nice to keep it measured and proportional. I'd say place names are probably the single most relevant influence of Gaelic in our daily lives and illustrates the how it can be relevant. It's much better served in this kind of educational/curiosity satisfying way than by pretending it's necessary for everyday life to start translating everything.
Regardless, it has bugger all to do with Human Rights or Monica McWilliams.
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