Everything Ulster - Latest comments on Did Anyone Notice Yesterday?

aonghus [Visitor] in response to: Did Anyone Notice Yesterday?

aonghus [Visitor] — Tue, 01 Nov 2005 01:01:36 +0000

Ideally we'll find ways to celebrate the good in each others versions of history - bravery, loyalty, etc., while not forgetting the hurt.

Now there's idealism!

But I think the State needs to be careful what it officially celebrates.

beano [Member] in response to: Did Anyone Notice Yesterday?

beano [Member] — Mon, 31 Oct 2005 16:29:06 +0000

" I don't think 1916 should be forgotten. I just don't think a military parade is the most appropriate way of commemerating it."

Wouldn't necessarily argue with that - but I still believe Ulster Day should be similarly remembered (by the way I know I'm fighting a lost cause but this is my blog and if I want to live in an idealist's bubble I will! )

"But I see a difference between the 1916 volunteers who marched openly in uniform (and the UVF of that time), and bombers of whatever political colour in the more recent past."

Definitely agree on that one.

aonghus [Visitor] in response to: Did Anyone Notice Yesterday?

aonghus [Visitor] — Mon, 31 Oct 2005 16:12:45 +0000

I don't think 1916 should be forgotten. I just don't think a military parade is the most appropriate way of commemerating it.

I think St Patricks day, which Protestant, Dissenter and Catholic can each identify with, is a wise choice of National Day.

I disagree that Home Rule was a foregone conclusion - I believe there was a conspiracy to prevent it - see the Curragh Mutiny, Churchill senior's "playing the orange card" etc. Home Rule would have been an Act of Parliament, as the act of Union in 1800 was.

However, I do believe 1916 would have failed if the British authorities had reacted differently - internment in Frongoch created the IRA of the War of independence, and killing the leaders of 1916 created martyrs.

But whatifery will not help. We are where we are. Indentity is a complicated thing.

But I see a difference between the 1916 volunteers who marched openly in uniform (and the UVF of that time), and bombers of whatever political colour in the more recent past.

Mark Mulholland [Visitor] in response to: Did Anyone Notice Yesterday?

Mark Mulholland [Visitor] — Mon, 31 Oct 2005 04:35:40 +0000

Beano,
I do understand where you are coming from. I do consider myself British and Im proud of it. However Im not in the slightest bit offended when someone calls me an Irishman. After all its not the worst insult that could be levelled at any of us.
I truly believe at this late stage in the game that the only true way to give all the population of N. Ireland a singular identity would be to have an independant country. That however is simply not practical.

beano [Member] in response to: Did Anyone Notice Yesterday?

beano [Member] — Mon, 31 Oct 2005 03:17:54 +0000

aonghus - you could be right, or he could simply have been a democrat and subconsciously hought of the parliament as belonging to the people. Undoubtedly partition was not Carson's first choice - and you could well be right about giving up on politics and/or unionism; I'm afraid I'm as guilty as the next man of not knowing enough about him.

Aognhus, yes it was in the end a call to arms if the politicians in the government of the UK and the Irish negotiators between them conspired to deny a people their right to self-determination. I'm curious if you also feel that the Easter Rising should be forgotten since it led commemorates an opportunistic, violent (and, I believe, pointless given that Home Rule was almost guaranteed anyway) uprising where many lost their lives. But at the end of the day it led to the foundation of the Southern Irish state.

howard [Visitor] in response to: Did Anyone Notice Yesterday?

howard [Visitor] — Mon, 31 Oct 2005 02:03:44 +0000

My grandad refused to sign.

Law-abiding unionst, he.

aonghus [Visitor] in response to: Did Anyone Notice Yesterday?

aonghus [Visitor] — Mon, 31 Oct 2005 00:45:34 +0000

" in using all means which may be found necessary to defeat the present conspiracy"

This is a call to rebel in arms against what was a democratically passed act of parliament.

aonghus [Visitor] in response to: Did Anyone Notice Yesterday?

aonghus [Visitor] — Mon, 31 Oct 2005 00:40:38 +0000

Just out of interest: I had the impression that Carson regarded the setting up of NI as a failure, and turned his back on political Unionism after 1922 - the quote above seems to back that up

"Let us take care that that reproach can no longer be made against your parliament"

Or am I off the mark?

Given that the covenant led to setting up the UVF and gun running, I think it is as unsuitable as a public holiday North or South as any such divisive occasion.

For the record, I'm not too happy either about Bertie reintroducing a military parade to commemerate 1916.

beano [Member] in response to: Did Anyone Notice Yesterday?

beano [Member] — Sun, 30 Oct 2005 04:30:30 +0000

Paul you're right and that's exactly why I think it would do us all well for young people to learn more about him. The fact that it's taken nearly 100 years and plenty of Unionists still haven't got around to that realisation is depressing.

Mark - America has Independence Day, Canada has Canada Day (1st July), France has Bastille day etc etc. Ulster Day was effectively the day that led to the birth of Northern Ireland and I think it's only fitting that it should be a holiday. I realise it would be difficult verging on the impossible to make this politically neutral but I think it would be nice.

For what it's worth: try as I might, I can't see myself as an Irishman.

bertie [Visitor] in response to: Did Anyone Notice Yesterday?

bertie [Visitor] — Sun, 30 Oct 2005 01:54:09 +0000

Agree about Carson. He wanted NI to have all the counties of Ulster so that the RC minority would not be as small and he considered that that would make for a healthier society.

I can't disagree more about Trimble!