I wouldn't give them the satisfaction of letting them think that for one minute I gave what they said any credibility. Maybe they feel threatened by the fact that the OO seem to be muscleing in on their territory.

This is said by someone who supports the OO and is hoping that it will come out forcefully in condemnation of the riots, expel the lummox weilding the sword and ask for all members to co-operate with the police.

good luck on that.

The English news is strongly suggesting that the OO is directly responsible, and that the Order has always had a quiet relationship with the prod paras - there seems to me to be a suggestion that the OO is calling in its favours.
I've always had a rose-tinted view of the orange order (is that possible, colour-wise?). It now seems that they have more links to the UVF than I liked to imagine.
It's interesting how we on the mainland are essentially allowed to think what the paras want us to think.

"THE head of the Orange Order has condemned the loyalist violence and appealed for it to stop immediately.

Grand Master Robert Saulters criticised all those who had taken part in the loyalist attacks on the security forces since Saturday and called for an immediate halt to such activity, which he said threatens the peace process. "It's time to stop because it's only our own people who are suffering," he said. "There's people going home from work and schools closing down."

Mr Saulters said Sunday's hijacking of a bus in Bangor and the robbery of its passengers - who were returning from church - was one of the worst incidents.

"That was ridiculous," he said. "They stole from the people on that bus. That's just gangsterism. They should be dealt with by the law."

Just spotted this.

I think the L.O's were genuinely trying to make a (ligitimate) statment about S.F.'S segragationalist policies, a statement which back fired badly as the degraded Protestant working class weren't effectivly directed in their protest by anyone except those who wanted trouble.
This was a great opportunity to expose the unfairness of the P.C. but its turned into another 'Protestant animals on rampage' farce. I can understand why these People are rioting.
The English press is being selective and manipulatory behond all beleif, the central Derry take over was ignored and all the other Republican clashes , almost no time is given to assertaining motives , and theres certainly no sympathy at all .
(Mr. McKitterick not getting behind these belegured communities apparently...)

We're doing exactly what Tony and Co. want us to , and also making our kids grow up in this Mad Max enviroment .

The fact they've found out the Ballymena , 'our Lady of the ?' Chapel attacks were the work of 10 year olds isnt much of a factor in the reackoning of those who are observers in the situation,
we're being represented , on international tellevision by the lowest wee spides in our midst.

I.K.P and the boys are off side and offering no leadership at all, someone responsible needs to get control here because at the minute we're tearing ourselves apart.

Paul, I think it's almost worse that the attacks on the chapel were by 10 year olds. It demonstrates the amount of hatred these children are being exposed to so early in their life.

And yet when Mary Mac Aleese (who was once burned out of her home by a similar mob) suggested as much....

Good point , what im saying is that this is a product of depravation and poverty rather than a thought out consented to by the wider community.

Aongus

The problem with Mary MacAleese's comments was that she compared ALL Protestants to Nazis, instilling hatred in their children rather than the reality which is that SOME do. As do some parents on the other side of the divide.

The Presidential mask slipped on that occasion

She used the word "some" quite clearly.

But just as the Orange Order are apparently justifying rioters today, the "some" was convienently ignored.

I stand corrected (partly)

"They gave to their children an irrational hatred of Jews in the same way that people in Northern Ireland transmitted to their children an irrational hatred, for example, of Catholics, in the same way that people give to their children an outrageous and irrational hatred of those who are of different colour and all of those things," she said.

I think in the context it is clear that some is meant. And I concede that the smae happnes in other groups.

But my comment was in the context of Unionists describing Loyalists as "Prodofascists"

And, as I said, she has personal experience (in 1970) of being driven out of her home by a Protestant mob.

Aonghus

Its not for you or me to decide what she meant. There is no word 'some' in her speech which you quote. The President of a country needs to be more careful with her words.

As I said before the mask slipped, exposing a bigot.

Her experience of being burnt out is irrelevant. Tens of thousands of people in Northern Ireland have suffered just as much or more and don't believe all of 'the other side' to be Nazis.

I don't understand your line: "But my comment was in the context of Unionists describing Loyalists as "Prodofascists""

Just came across this site. I do not live on that side of the pond and cannot pretend to know what it is like to live in NI. I've been there briefly though and must say it is surreal if you are not from there (maybe even if you are from there)

All I can say is that it is nice to see that rational people on you website know that peace is Good. No matter if someone is an Unionist or a Nationalist, you folks all live on an amazing Island and you should work hard to help everyone on the Island live a happy and equally prosperous life.

The riots seem to be spawned from economics issues. What are they? Why do these issues become sectarian. Why are parades so critical?

In reference to McAleeses comment I really think people chose to be offended by it. Her comment was not directed solely at the protestant community, he mistake though was simply using the example of protestants. (yes it was a bad mistake but she has done more than most to 'build bridges' in NI). And if people would read her comment in full (or indeed listen to it) she also mentions that the same problems are evident in Dublin. So should all the people of Dublin be as offended as NI protestants?

David N, it is as illogical to claim the quote referred to all protestants in Northern Ireland as it is to claim the rest of the quote means that all white people raise their children to be racists.

Note the words "for example".

And frankly, given that the democratically elected leader of Unionism regularly refers to the leader of my Church as "The Antichrist" and that church as "The whore of Babylon", and has campaigned against UK incitement to hatred law being introduced (it will not be introduced in NI anyway), I find it a bit rich for you to claim the President of my country is a closet bigot.

The "Prodofascist" refers to a related recent thread on this site.

I have read the President's biography, and there is nothing there or in her actions to bear out your claim. This one comment, deliberately misconstrued, is all the evidence that she is a bigot.

Quite frankly it is time that both sides in NI reassessed the demonologies and martyrologies that they impose on the rest of us in Britain and Ireland as an excuse not to sit down and work on the local problems in NI.

As I said befoire, the attitude of most people in the South is "a plague on both your houses"

(Rant ends. Sorry, got carried away).

I'm not prepared to gloss over MacAleese's comments and accept that it's ok because she said "for example", however I'm prepared to give her the benefit of the doubt with regard to her (let's face it, rather swift) apology for the imbalance.

Rather than brand her a bigot, I feel it's simply evidence that with the divisions in Northern Ireland, people automatically and subconsciously blame the 'other side' more than they'd like to admit.

We could argue all day about what she meant or didn't mean. As I said above, Presidents (or their speechwriters) should be much more careful wih their words. Or prehaps it was a subconscious slip from the script.

Aonghus - I agree with you about Paisley

and thanks for letting us know what people in the South think of Northern Ireland. That viewpoint suits me fine

We could. But let's not. As far as I know, it was an unscripted response to a question.

Despite our southern viewpoint, the thing is that the external perception of my country and my state is dominated by Northren Ireland, so I can't ignore you!

And, as someone who has lived abroad, I have needed to have a clearer picture to counter a simple black and white view of things - especially as the PIRA has basically got their view out there, and no one else has much.

Agreed

What goes on in the north has nothing to do with the south and vice versa and it's time the world's media began seeing the difference between the two

All we can do is strive to develop good relationships as neighbours on this island

"Nothing to do" is perhaps a bit misleading.

We are say, a group of cousins! Family fights are always the worst.

Amen to the rest of your post.