So Madame George isn't a runner?

Madame George is beautiful, you could do a lot worse!

Sure that should be Northern Ireland National Anthem or are you going to invade and reclain the other three counties ??

Sure that should be Northern Ireland National Anthem or are you going to invade and reclain the other three counties ??
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Borders change, get over it! Ulster is six counties, known as Northern Ireland, which could change in the future or not.

Should we also, in keeping with Republican demands to have Ireland's "ancient provinces", restore the fifth ancient province of Mide? or is that just to far in the past?

Don't be silly CJ, don't you know it's only the provinces drawn up by English governments that really count?

Sean, after a UDI we can call ourselves what we want ... besides the lost 3 (actually Cavan doesn't really matter to me that much) will be dying to rejoin the motherland in good time

Anyway, if the Republic can get away with erroneously referring to itself as "Ireland" then they can't complain.

Don't be silly CJ, don't you know it's only the provinces drawn up by English governments that really count?
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I think you mean "Evil English", don't you?

As you all know there's only one Ireland and it is'nt Ulster so there can be only one Anthem and you know all wich one.
Greetings from the sunny side of the street.
Nick

What about...

Raise thy banner, Northern Ireland!
\'neath its shadow we will stand
As we call to God in heaven
For his blessing on our land.
And our God enthroned in glory
He will hear our earnest cries
And the ancient land we live in.
Shall with new born strength arise.

I agree it is a bit Goddy tho....

What about Carrickfergus as a NI national anthem?

Something neutral like this would be far more appealing to would-be NI football fans from the Nationalist side of the community. Its also a song that is widely known around the world.

It has to be better than singing the English anthem "God Save The Queen."

Right.

i am of english birth with scottish and Ulster blood, i when asked where i was born say nothing other than Great Britain, and when asked my home town i say Ulster. i would fight for Ulster with out batting a eyelid, i sit here typing this in a old Ulster Rugby shirt, i am proud to be British and am nothing else, but taht

i have that song and do quite like it, but when you say 'God Save The Queen' is english i have to laugh ! we are all British and weither your scottish, english , nothern irish or welsh you should always stand for the Queen.

A great anthem. This song along with the views held by those who brought it into being, will surface again...very soon. When told that Independence is impossible and told we are too small to support ourselves, I return....There is no such thing as a little country. The greatness of a people is no more determined by their number than the greatness of a man is determined by his height. We need self determination for the Ulster Nation!

"We need self determination for the Ulster Nation!"

Crikey! They're all out today.

Also, isn't "Carrickfergus" a Tipperary song? It isn't about the Carrick in Co. Antrim.

"I wish I was in Carrickfergus
Where the castle looks out to sea."

Sounds like Carrick to me. Wikipedia doesn't know of any other Carrickfergus. Neither, it seems, does google maps. Is there one in Tipperary?

Yes, I'm thoroughly confused now! The song mentions the sea - clearly not Tipperary. The only reasonable explanation is that it IS Carrick Co. Antrim.

However, the song also mentions Kilkenny which suggests it isn't solely an Ulster-related song and, as I say, I'd always associated it with Tipperary people (which, for those of your readers not so well up on Irish geography, is a county adjacent to Co. Kilkenny).

Borders change, Ulsters haven't. Ulster's borders include Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan. Ulster isn't a country, thus has no need for a National Anthem. Northern Ireland isn't a country either, so it has no need for a national anthem. The national anthem of Northern Ireland is Amhrán na bhFiann, the same as the rest of the country.

"Ulster's borders include Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan."

Indeed, Seamus. The Republic's constituencies for the Euro Parliament include one called "Connacht-Ulster" which includes Donegal, Monaghan and Cavan. People from those counties consider themselves as being from Ulster.

The suggestion that, on the creation of NI, the generally accepted boundaries of Ulster suddenly retracted to reflect the boundary of NI is bizarre. Why should this be the case? There is no logical reason for this to be the case.

Reg, there is no Connacht-Ulster constituency any more.

Ulster boundaries didn't include Cavan until Queen Elizabeth I decided to carve up Breifne (sp?) and gift the newly-created county of Cavan to the Earl of Ulster as a reward for loyalty. In fact, IIRC Ulster once included what is now Louth. But sure you let on Ulster's borders haven't changed if that helps you sleep easier.

Or wake up and realise that borders change and Ulster is no exception. This romantic attachment of Irish nationalists to borders drawn up by the English administration a few centuries ago is puzzling indeed.

It doesn't matter who originally drew the boundaries, what matters is that they are recognised by the majority of people on this island. The majority of people on this island recognise that Ulster contains nine counties. I am from Antrim. I am an Irishman, but I am also an Ulsterman, but so are my cousins in Donegal. The boundaries of Ulster are nine counties and will be nine counties when this experiment called Northern Ireland finally fails.

Sure, a nation once again - end of argument

"Reg, there is no Connacht-Ulster constituency any more."

Ah yes, I forgot about the recent change. It is now "North-West" as it was changed to include Co. Clare which is in neither Connacht nor Ulster.

"Ulster boundaries didn't include Cavan until Queen Elizabeth I decided to carve up Breifne (sp?) and gift the newly-created county of Cavan to the Earl of Ulster as a reward for loyalty."

Beano, we've been through this before. The generally recognised modern borders of Ulster are not the borders of the ancient province of Ulster (which were quite fluid). I think we all agree on that.

The boundaries of Ulster (no matter who they were drawn up by) are now generally accepted to be the 9 counties. Furthermore people in Donegal, Monaghan and Cavan consider themselves to be Ulster-people. If they aren't from Ulster, what province do you suggest they are from?

The creation of NI had no effect on the boundaries of Ulster. I find it bizarre you can argue that it did and, I'm sure, many unionists would agree with me.

I'm not saying that the creation of Northern Ireland did change Ulster's boundaries just that there is more than one valid interpretation. Terms like "generally accepted" wouldn't even be allowed on Wikipedia (and there is some shit on there) without reference because it is too vague to have any value or meaning.

There are a lot of "Ulster" organisations that are NI entities. (University of Ulster, Ulster Orchestra, Ulster Farmers' Union, USPCA, Ulster Teachers' Union... I'm sure there are hundreds). Outside of (some) sports, there is very little use of the 9-county Ulster.

You're right though; we have been through this before, and since Ulster isn't legally defined anywhere (the Euro constituency was the closest there was and even that's flimsy) I suggest we agree to disagree. Considering this was supposed to be about the song, I think the best thing would be to quietly delete comments like Seán's (number 3) in future.

Breffni (Cavan & Leitrim) was a buffer kingdom between Connaught & Ulster, which regularily changed hands between the 2 provinces. Louth also regularily changed between Ulster & Meath.

There was a time when Ulster not only consisted of the present day 9 counties & Louth but also Leitrim, thus there once being 11 counties in Ulster. Also the Black Pigs Dyke, included much of Cavan & Leitrim. The traditional boundary between Connaught & the rest of Ireland is the River Shannon, thus pointing that Cavan particularily should be part of Ulster.

As a matter of fact, its actually quite strange that Leitrim was not included in Ulster following the plantation, as it was Planted in 1622, and there been Orange Halls in Leitrim right up to the present day.

If you look at the 4 ecclesiastical provinces of Ireland, Breffni (Leitrim & Cavan) are not part of the Western Province Tuam, but are part of the Northern Province of Armagh.

Also the Family Arms of the O'Reillys who where the principle ruling clan of Cavan, have the Red Hand at the centre of its crest, pointing that the Cavan part of Breffni identified itself with Ulster.

So yes that boundary of Ulster has changed, but its alway been similar the the present 9 county boundary.

Edited formatting for readability - beano

Interesting discussion on Ulster's borders/boundaries: I did know that Ulster was a nine-county Irish province out of which the UK's division of Northern Ireland was formed from six counties with the three remaining counties being incorporated into the then Irish Free State and now the Republic of Ireland. I believe that Cos. Donegal and Cavan were heavily colonized with English and Scottish Protestant settlers during the Planatation of Ulster. However on the establishment of Northern Ireland as a division of the UK, these counties fell to the Irish Free State and were never included in Northern Ireland, and so not included in the UK, as they did not have large enough Protestant communities, while Co. Antrim, the most Protestant of all counties in Ireland, was never colonized during the Plantation of Ulster. How did Co. Antrim get so many Protestants without being colonized like other counties and parts of Ulster?

English government? anyone who knows British Polictics will know that the English do not represent themselves at all.

The province is nine counties as drawn up by the English. Ulster itself has varied in size over the centuries.

I thought the one written by the minister wasn't a bad attempt. Here it is,with a couple of changes

These are the days that are calling us to glory
The dawn of hope that conquers pain and grief
As from the ashes of the past wer'e rising
Inspired by pride by passion and belief

From Antrim's glens to the loughsides of Fermanagh
From Derry's walls to Strangford's waters blue
From the streets of Belfast to the Giant's Causeway
Dear land of Ulster we will boldly stand for you

And we shall rise above the noise of battle
One nation strong our people proud and true
Dear land of Ulster home of all we cherish
Here we shall live and die and pledge our hearts to you

"So yes that boundary of Ulster has changed, but its alway been similar the the present 9 county boundary."

What nonsense! Uliad / Ulidia (which Ulster is named after) only covered the area of Counties Antrim and Down.

Here we are in 650AD:
http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/maps/historical/map650.gif

Again 400 years later in 1014AD:
http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/maps/historical/map1014.gif

And the first area claimed by the English lords as "Ulster" only covered the greater Belfast area!!!:
http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/maps/historical/map1450.gif

Next time you hear nationalists falsely claiming the Ulster MUST be 9 counties please post these maps. Wikipedia is also very biased in this respect due to nationalist editors on there.

"So yes that boundary of Ulster has changed, but its alway been similar the the present 9 county boundary."

What nonsense! Uliad / Ulidia (which Ulster is named after) only covered the area of Counties Antrim and Down.

Here we are in 650AD.

Again 400 years later in 1014AD.

And the first area claimed by the English lords as "Ulster" only covered the greater Belfast area!!!.

Next time you hear nationalists falsely claiming the Ulster MUST be 9 counties please post these maps. Wikipedia is also very biased in this respect due to nationalist editors on there.

Correction: ULAID, not "Uliad"!!!

@John - Antrim has so many protestants because it's very close to Scotland. Much closer to Scotland than many imagine. You can see Scotland from almost anywhere on the Antrim coast - at the narrowest point of the North Channel it's only 13 miles across.

Look up the ancient kingdom of Dalriada - there has been migration between Ireland and Scotland and vice-versa via Antrim for centuries.

Raise thy banner, Sons of Ulster
'neath its shadow we will stand
As we call to God in heaven
For his blessing on our land.

And our God enthroned in glory
He will hear our earnest cries
And the ancient land of Ulster
Shall with new born strength arise.

Raise thy banner, Sons of Ulster
Pledge again thy heart and hand
To be ever true and loyal
In the service of our land

Soon will come the dawn of morning
Soon will end the night of pain
And the ancient land of Ulster
Be a nation once again.

Looking at that again I think there is a verse missing. Went something like

Raise your banner Sons of Ulster
Sing your song of liberty
Neath the yoke of the tyrant
Let us never bend the knee
A new day is now a dawning
So sound forth the battle cry
That the ancient land of Ulster
Shall never ever die
That the ancient land of Ulster
Shall never ever die.

Love all these rebels yapping about us prod ulster scots invaders. You're only in ireland about 300 yrs before us and most of you are spanish. Britain brought civilisation to Ulster. Take british benefits out and ireland returns to a 3rd world country. NO Surrender

http://primetime.unrealitytv.co.uk/how-the-celts-saved-britain-bbc-four/

You're completely wrong there. Scotland was largely settled by people from Ireland. There have been sophisticated communities on Ireland dating back 5000 years. If you are really interested in history and human migration go and have a look at the drainage system on the burial chamber at Newgrange. It's more informative than a few patriotic chants. No Surrender? Seriously? And you are talking about being civilsed!

The strands of this discussion relate to the 2 nation theory which has a long pedigree in Ireland.With the current demise of Roman Catholicism now proceeding in Ireland one element of division is being dramatically weakened.Extreme Protestantism is a mirror image of Catholicism so its reduction will be part of a solution.The Common thread we all share includes love of culture, the land and freedom from Imperialism.

I want to take this opportunity, as an Irish Republican,
to use this as an example of why "Eire Nua" would be a
solution best to an independant Ireland. We take and
confederalise the four provinces into local self-governing
regions. Ulster, for one, would be taking the lead more
than the rest of the provinces here. Eire Nua is the one
Republican proposal that genuinely reaches out to unionists.
And I want you unionists to know that I embrace you all
as my fellow countrymen. Everything about Ulster
protestantism is a wonderful part of Irish history and
Culture. In the UK, you are only 2% of the British people and
have little power in Westminster. In a confederated United
Ireland, you are 25% and you will have more power,
and distinction than ever before.In Ulster, the same
as the other three provinces, you would have your own Dail,
your own President/governer, and your own Justice make up.
You would be able to govern yourselves locally and be
distinct. Each and every political party would have more
freedom to excercise their goals and beliefs amongst
the people as opposed to the shammed GFA. I have
had many unionists agree that this is the best
workable alternative to English Rule in Ireland.
They say we need a majority. Well, this is our
chance to achieve that. It is a peaceful solution
and embraces all people of Ireland and the people of
each province historically and culturely. I encourage all
unionists to give it some consideration. And in Eire Nua,
it is a possibility to elect one of your own as Irish prime
minister. This British government have exasserbated tensions
between us for long enough. This is our chance to come
together as a people, govern ourselves as a people,
have a stronger impact on the international world.
Ireland forever, the people of all ireland forever,
and the rest of our future, free from another country's
rule forever!

Mark Newman

Ulster Needs independence, whats the point of being fought over by two rival powers? never before has Ulster been part of a unified Irish state, why should it be now?

Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.

Wow! I’ve never heard of this before and I think they’re awesome!