So Madame George isn't a runner?

Madame George is beautiful, you could do a lot worse!

Sure that should be Northern Ireland National Anthem or are you going to invade and reclain the other three counties ??

Sure that should be Northern Ireland National Anthem or are you going to invade and reclain the other three counties ??
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Borders change, get over it! Ulster is six counties, known as Northern Ireland, which could change in the future or not.

Should we also, in keeping with Republican demands to have Ireland's "ancient provinces", restore the fifth ancient province of Mide? or is that just to far in the past?

Don't be silly CJ, don't you know it's only the provinces drawn up by English governments that really count?

Sean, after a UDI we can call ourselves what we want ... besides the lost 3 (actually Cavan doesn't really matter to me that much) will be dying to rejoin the motherland in good time

Anyway, if the Republic can get away with erroneously referring to itself as "Ireland" then they can't complain.

Don't be silly CJ, don't you know it's only the provinces drawn up by English governments that really count?
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I think you mean "Evil English", don't you?

As you all know there's only one Ireland and it is'nt Ulster so there can be only one Anthem and you know all wich one.
Greetings from the sunny side of the street.
Nick

What about...

Raise thy banner, Northern Ireland!
\'neath its shadow we will stand
As we call to God in heaven
For his blessing on our land.
And our God enthroned in glory
He will hear our earnest cries
And the ancient land we live in.
Shall with new born strength arise.

I agree it is a bit Goddy tho....

What about Carrickfergus as a NI national anthem?

Something neutral like this would be far more appealing to would-be NI football fans from the Nationalist side of the community. Its also a song that is widely known around the world.

It has to be better than singing the English anthem "God Save The Queen."

Right.

i am of english birth with scottish and Ulster blood, i when asked where i was born say nothing other than Great Britain, and when asked my home town i say Ulster. i would fight for Ulster with out batting a eyelid, i sit here typing this in a old Ulster Rugby shirt, i am proud to be British and am nothing else, but taht

i have that song and do quite like it, but when you say 'God Save The Queen' is english i have to laugh ! we are all British and weither your scottish, english , nothern irish or welsh you should always stand for the Queen.

A great anthem. This song along with the views held by those who brought it into being, will surface again...very soon. When told that Independence is impossible and told we are too small to support ourselves, I return....There is no such thing as a little country. The greatness of a people is no more determined by their number than the greatness of a man is determined by his height. We need self determination for the Ulster Nation!

"We need self determination for the Ulster Nation!"

Crikey! They're all out today.

Also, isn't "Carrickfergus" a Tipperary song? It isn't about the Carrick in Co. Antrim.

"I wish I was in Carrickfergus
Where the castle looks out to sea."

Sounds like Carrick to me. Wikipedia doesn't know of any other Carrickfergus. Neither, it seems, does google maps. Is there one in Tipperary?

Yes, I'm thoroughly confused now! The song mentions the sea - clearly not Tipperary. The only reasonable explanation is that it IS Carrick Co. Antrim.

However, the song also mentions Kilkenny which suggests it isn't solely an Ulster-related song and, as I say, I'd always associated it with Tipperary people (which, for those of your readers not so well up on Irish geography, is a county adjacent to Co. Kilkenny).

Borders change, Ulsters haven't. Ulster's borders include Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan. Ulster isn't a country, thus has no need for a National Anthem. Northern Ireland isn't a country either, so it has no need for a national anthem. The national anthem of Northern Ireland is Amhrán na bhFiann, the same as the rest of the country.

"Ulster's borders include Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan."

Indeed, Seamus. The Republic's constituencies for the Euro Parliament include one called "Connacht-Ulster" which includes Donegal, Monaghan and Cavan. People from those counties consider themselves as being from Ulster.

The suggestion that, on the creation of NI, the generally accepted boundaries of Ulster suddenly retracted to reflect the boundary of NI is bizarre. Why should this be the case? There is no logical reason for this to be the case.

Reg, there is no Connacht-Ulster constituency any more.

Ulster boundaries didn't include Cavan until Queen Elizabeth I decided to carve up Breifne (sp?) and gift the newly-created county of Cavan to the Earl of Ulster as a reward for loyalty. In fact, IIRC Ulster once included what is now Louth. But sure you let on Ulster's borders haven't changed if that helps you sleep easier.

Or wake up and realise that borders change and Ulster is no exception. This romantic attachment of Irish nationalists to borders drawn up by the English administration a few centuries ago is puzzling indeed.

It doesn't matter who originally drew the boundaries, what matters is that they are recognised by the majority of people on this island. The majority of people on this island recognise that Ulster contains nine counties. I am from Antrim. I am an Irishman, but I am also an Ulsterman, but so are my cousins in Donegal. The boundaries of Ulster are nine counties and will be nine counties when this experiment called Northern Ireland finally fails.

Sure, a nation once again - end of argument

"Reg, there is no Connacht-Ulster constituency any more."

Ah yes, I forgot about the recent change. It is now "North-West" as it was changed to include Co. Clare which is in neither Connacht nor Ulster.

"Ulster boundaries didn't include Cavan until Queen Elizabeth I decided to carve up Breifne (sp?) and gift the newly-created county of Cavan to the Earl of Ulster as a reward for loyalty."

Beano, we've been through this before. The generally recognised modern borders of Ulster are not the borders of the ancient province of Ulster (which were quite fluid). I think we all agree on that.

The boundaries of Ulster (no matter who they were drawn up by) are now generally accepted to be the 9 counties. Furthermore people in Donegal, Monaghan and Cavan consider themselves to be Ulster-people. If they aren't from Ulster, what province do you suggest they are from?

The creation of NI had no effect on the boundaries of Ulster. I find it bizarre you can argue that it did and, I'm sure, many unionists would agree with me.

I'm not saying that the creation of Northern Ireland did change Ulster's boundaries just that there is more than one valid interpretation. Terms like "generally accepted" wouldn't even be allowed on Wikipedia (and there is some shit on there) without reference because it is too vague to have any value or meaning.

There are a lot of "Ulster" organisations that are NI entities. (University of Ulster, Ulster Orchestra, Ulster Farmers' Union, USPCA, Ulster Teachers' Union... I'm sure there are hundreds). Outside of (some) sports, there is very little use of the 9-county Ulster.

You're right though; we have been through this before, and since Ulster isn't legally defined anywhere (the Euro constituency was the closest there was and even that's flimsy) I suggest we agree to disagree. Considering this was supposed to be about the song, I think the best thing would be to quietly delete comments like Seán's (number 3) in future.

Breffni (Cavan & Leitrim) was a buffer kingdom between Connaught & Ulster, which regularily changed hands between the 2 provinces. Louth also regularily changed between Ulster & Meath.

There was a time when Ulster not only consisted of the present day 9 counties & Louth but also Leitrim, thus there once being 11 counties in Ulster. Also the Black Pigs Dyke, included much of Cavan & Leitrim. The traditional boundary between Connaught & the rest of Ireland is the River Shannon, thus pointing that Cavan particularily should be part of Ulster.

As a matter of fact, its actually quite strange that Leitrim was not included in Ulster following the plantation, as it was Planted in 1622, and there been Orange Halls in Leitrim right up to the present day.

If you look at the 4 ecclesiastical provinces of Ireland, Breffni (Leitrim & Cavan) are not part of the Western Province Tuam, but are part of the Northern Province of Armagh.

Also the Family Arms of the O'Reillys who where the principle ruling clan of Cavan, have the Red Hand at the centre of its crest, pointing that the Cavan part of Breffni identified itself with Ulster.

So yes that boundary of Ulster has changed, but its alway been similar the the present 9 county boundary.

Edited formatting for readability - beano

Interesting discussion on Ulster's borders/boundaries: I did know that Ulster was a nine-county Irish province out of which the UK's division of Northern Ireland was formed from six counties with the three remaining counties being incorporated into the then Irish Free State and now the Republic of Ireland. I believe that Cos. Donegal and Cavan were heavily colonized with English and Scottish Protestant settlers during the Planatation of Ulster. However on the establishment of Northern Ireland as a division of the UK, these counties fell to the Irish Free State and were never included in Northern Ireland, and so not included in the UK, as they did not have large enough Protestant communities, while Co. Antrim, the most Protestant of all counties in Ireland, was never colonized during the Plantation of Ulster. How did Co. Antrim get so many Protestants without being colonized like other counties and parts of Ulster?