Hear hear!

Why should smokers be forced out of bars now? Why did you go to these bars and restaurants in the past when you knew there was going to be a smokey atmosphere? Or did this keep you in the house until now?
It is a denial of human rights! How long before they ban drinking in pubs because people who drink are more likely to start fights?
Enjoy the sweet aroma of BO and farts next time you walk into a pub!

Finally provoked a reaction from you then?

"Why did you go to these bars and restaurants in the past when you knew there was going to be a smokey atmosphere?"

It's a price that, up until now had to be paid. That's like someone in maybe a year's time saying smoking should be allowed in bars and me arguing "Well you've been going to bars for the last year, why did you go if you knew you weren't going to be allowed to smoke?"

"It is a denial of human rights!"

LOL - funny guy. You've been listening to the Sinners too much. Anyway, your right to swing your fist ends where my face begins.

How long before they ban drinking in pubs because people who drink are more likely to start fights?

Erm... never. It's the act of smoking itself that harms other people so it is (now) illegal. In the example you give the law already deals with the action that causes the harm (the fighting) as assault is already illegal.

Good afternoon Beano, it's been a while. I'd like to congratulate the occupied 6 counties for joining the rest of Ireland in regards to the smoking ban, I fully support it. It's the first step to a fully free and United Ireland!

As a non-drinking smoker its not going to affect me very much. Don't go to pubs and smoking has been banned in my workplace for ages now anyway?
What is irritating though is how many people now think it is illegal to smoke in the street/at the bus stop/at the football etc.
Its 'ENCLOSED public places' people.
The actual rules/regulations have been very badly advertised. They need to be publicly clarified....and quickly!

It's great Beano. As a non-smoker it is nice to be able to go out for a few pints and not be stinking of smoke when you get home. It has worked very well here.

I neither drink nor smoke but worked in pubs for many years and still like them.

However, I don't think most of the anti-pub smoking arguments are well founded. Even though I don't drink or smoke, I know what they are when I enter them.

Nobody is required to be in a pub, and they are private businesses. Thus, entrants have no 'right' to complain if smoke is allowed given it is a legal product.

Admittedly I like the fresh air, but in the south and in Scotland it has caused many pubs to close.

I also don't see the great 'health benefit'. Pubs are for vices, so I don't see why on health grounds the pub scene should be made healthier for people to go drink alcohol. Those seeking a smoke free atmosphere do not come with clean hands with that argument.

As a policy decision, however, apart from voluntary vice trades like pubs, gambling establisments, etc, the law makes sense for restaurants and ordinary businesses. The situation before where smoking was tolerated everywhere was wrong, especially on places that involved going about one's day normally and with clean hands.

I am not in favour of a total ban on smoking in every pub. I think it encroaches on the right of the individual.

Here in Berlin there will be a smoking ban imposed soon and I can see literally hundreds of bars closing because they don't have the space for people to go and smoke in comfort. Why should smokers be pushed outside in the cold?


I would prefer if pubs were able to identify themselves as smoking or non-smoking establishments. Even both provided they were separated by a solid wall and two sets of doors(sort of airlock :-) ). A disclaimer on the door of a smoking pub indicates that smoking is permitted and that by entering you acknowledge the potential risk to your own health.

Similarly workers would also have to sign an agreement with their employer that they agree to work in a smoking environment.

I believe that the laws of supply and demand would ensure that both types of establishment would flourish.
This way no-one is forced into anything and the rights of all are respected.

What he said!

I have recently carried out an investigation on how the smoking ban in Wales will affect licensed premises.
My research has found that financially the premises serving food should see an increase in profits from the smoking ban and that it is a good thing "Generally". I AM a smoker and do however agree with the smoking ban in public places. Unlike some I take in to consideration that smoking does not just harm me, out of choice, but others around, not out of choice. Instead of saying "Why did you go to these bars and restaurants in the past when you knew there was going to be a smokey atmosphere?" this is the most stupid argument IV ever heard. You can still have a fag - just go outside you lazy git. This argument is like saying “don’t cross the road if you don’t want to get hit by a car” you have to cross the road. Like you have to go out and socialise. Smokers and non smokers now can ALL go out and enjoy. No human rights infringements (idiot)

Wooooooo! that was a bit personal! how can smokers go out and enjoy when they are now being forced outside? (idiot). its nothing like saying dont cross the road if you dont want to get hit by a car you moron! people dont cross roads just for the sake of it! you dont have to go into a bar if you dont want to and if you did before the smoking ban, it obviously wasnt that much of a problem for non-smokers!

"its nothing like saying dont cross the road if you dont want to get hit by a car you moron! "

There are similarities, although I admit it is a flawed analogy.

"people dont cross roads just for the sake of it! "

People don't go to bars "just for the sake of it" either. They go there to relax, socialise, enjoy a drink etc.

"you dont have to go into a bar if you dont want to ..."
Unless, of course, you happen to want to do any of the above.

"and if you did before the smoking ban, it obviously wasnt that much of a problem for non-smokers!"
Yeah it is, but it's a price that has had to be paid. It was always a problem - I don't know how many people I've heard after coming home/getting up the next morning complain that they're stinking of smoke (for example).

Besides, by your logic if you go to a bar after the smoking ban, then the smoking ban obviously isn't that much of a problem!

What it boils down to is a choice:
If non-smokers want to go to a bar to relax they have to put up with smoke; or
If smokers want to go to a bar to relax they have to put up with not smoking.

All that's changed is it's a different group that's being inconvenienced now: smokers instead of non-smokers. The obvious benefit (to me) is that now its only my actions affecting my health.

people dont cross roads for their enjoyment though. going to a bar is just for enjoyment and non-smokers seemed to be able to enjoy themselves before the ban. if you couldnt relax because people were smoking in a bar then i think you have some serious problems. i agree with the idea of smoking and non-smoking bars. think you will find the smoking ones would do more business! as for complaining about stinking of smoke the next day, have a wash!

like Gary enall is saying...its a breach or free rights...well maybe you should think from the non-smokers point of veiw...they dont really want your smokey breath all around them and you actually damage them more than you damage yourself...technically you could be murdering them with every breath you breathe out...ever think bout that? our free right is also being breached and this non smoking ban in my opinion is for the better. you can go and breath outside and maybe yous can quit and help your lungs.

Its doing non-smokers more damage than the smoker? glue? thinking of the non-smokers i said i would support smoking and non-smoking bars! think murdering is a tiny bit over the top! which free right were non-smokers previously being denied?

Oh dear....hello beano thought i'd check by and see what the gossip is? and its pretty similar to the mainland, everyone going crazy about the smoking ban!

Ok so here's my take on it, im a smoker, im a drinker & I was brought up in a pub.

I also hold a licence to run pubs in Portugal and Spain, where the ban has been in place for sometime, I have lived in Scotland and was there when the ban came in but now Im home in England and now we are weeks away, everyone wants my opinion.

Ok well in Scotland I saw a lot of local pubs close, but this was probably enevitable as they relied on the day trade which is generally smoking o.a.p.s in small towns and villages, and it was quite a sight on a friday evening seeing the blue rinse brigade piling out the bingo for a fag during the interval! but wherever you asked pubs, clubs and even restaurants, generally trade was down.

I have been back to Edinburgh and Glasgow recently and noticed it hasnt changed much, the bars are empty and unless you have an area for people to smoke outside, I dont think many bars will last. Rose St in Edinburgh used to be buzzing, 2 weeks ago it was dead.

I think it will be the same in England, I dont know what effect you have had there in Northern Ireland yet or if you have seen much changed but the government are smart by introducing it in the summer, its not as noticeable, but wait for the rain and snow and notice the difference then.

My own opinion is I am not bothered going outside to smoke, but why cant we be like the rest of Europe, In Spain, each and every bar have a sign clearly marked as you enter, it is either a smoking or non smoking bar, there are plenty to choose from, so if you would rather sit in a non smoking bar its your choice, if it is empty and devoid of atmosphere... its tough at the end of the day. same goes for us, if our bars are empty, but to say, sorry you havent got a choice is taking it a bit too far, especially when we are taxed the highest out of all consumers in the UK.

The government are giving out millions and millions on surveillance equipment to catch people smoking in work, I really thought the idea was to improve the general health of people and cut down the amount spent on treating diseases associated with smoking, obviously mr blair and mr brown dont mind chucking money on spy camera's, I really do think this is where the poster who mentioned human rights is coming from, I mean you dont have camera's in work places in spain to enforce the law, the next thing we know , there will be cameras in public toilet cubicles trying to catch someone having a sneaky puff.

what is interesting is that in both holyrood, the houses of parliament and in brussels they still are allowed to have smoking rooms for employees, surely this is one rule for them and one for us?

Me personally I will not give up unless the lady I am interested in said to me stu the smoking puts me off, (she is a non smoker and lives in Northern Ireland) if she said that i'd give up tomorrow, no probs, it would save me a fortune, but she hasnt mentioned it and i enjoy sitting outside with a ciggie, a cuppa or a pint and read my newspaper, only problem is in this country its a bit difficult with the weather!

please do note I havent mentioned restaurants much, but that is because in my personal opinion I wouldnt smoke in one, because smoking whilst others are eating is a different case entirely.

Anyway have fun im off to portugal next week for some duty free and a place where I will see the smoking ban come into the UK whilst I am sat outside in the sun!

Regards

Stu

you can go to other places to smoke. When a somker breathes out his smoke he breathes out 80% of the fumes which goes the the people around the smoker while the smoker only inhales 20% of the fumes...that is more damage to the people around the smoker.
everyone is allowed free rights but the non-smokers are just as important as the smokers. Although this situation is more about health as its damaging.

It is not about whether smoking is harmful, or whether second hand smoke is harmful, or about how horrible it is to go home stinking of smoke when you don't smoke yourself (and I am a non-smoker).

It is about freedom for adults to do what they like to themselves and take the consequences. NO-ONE is FORCED to endure other people's smoke. Before the uiniversal ban there were very few places that smoking was allowed, and if you didn't want to be in the smoke you didn't have to go there.

It would have been perfectly possible to accomodate the wishes of both smokers and non-smokers by having segregated smoking and non-smoking areas, with strict ventilation standards.

That would also have made it perfectly possible for bar staff that smoke to serve in smoking bars and non-smoking staff to attend non-smoking bars. Instead our governments have chosen to take a heavy handed approach that forces everyone to conform to the official view.

The net result will be a massive change to the way that people associate, untold damage to business, and the building up of even more hatred and resentment (fully deserved) against government.


It is all very well for those of you that disapprove of smoking to approve of the bans, but how will you feel when the government legislates against your favourite vice/pleasure/addicition.

As an aside - you think this will allow you the pleasure of having a drink in a smoke free atmosphere. Well first you will have to find a pub that hasn't shut. And then it won't be any fun because there will be no atmosphere, and the few smokers that bother to leave their homes will be nipoping outxside every half hour leaving you styaring at their empty chairs.

A society that really believed in freedom would work at finding ways to allow people to exercise their freedoms without inflicting unpleasant consequences on others. The politicians that rule the world we live in believe that it is their job to force everyone to live a life of which they approve. That is what is frightening. Where will it end. As the slogan puts it, I'd rather have a smoker than a Fascist.

That's a slight overreaction Tommy. Very few bars will shut over this and I don't see the atmosphere changing that much. In fact the couple of times I've been out since the ban came in (I had lots of exams followed by a 2 week holiday so have only been out a handful of times) it's been a much more enjoyable experience - quite the opposite of the apocalypse you seem to be predicting. Oh and there was nothing wrong with the atmosphere - though that may be because most of my friends don't smoke.

I'd suspect the sort of people who will stop going out altogether (if any) because they can't smoke contribute little to any 'atmosphere' anyway

"A society that really believed in freedom would work at finding ways to allow people to exercise their freedoms without inflicting unpleasant consequences on others"

Fine, exercise your entrepreneurial spirit and invent a cigarette which doesn't give off second-hand smoke instead of expecting the government to sort it out. And good luck to you.