Everything Ulster

Johnnie,

Yes, that was another one that I had put together and experimented with. I think this is what you are asking for:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Saint_Patrick%27s_flag_for_Northern_Ireland_shield.svg

Indeed this is also good. My main criticism of the shield is that there is little to differentiate the shield of the traditional Ulster flag from the 6 counties of Northern Ireland. The star/hexagon have a nice 6 sides for 6 counties - hexagon also can be a causeway stone.

This is what I mean by something like a design that could be less controversial. Replace the yellow in the shield with white to keep the Protestants happy!

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Saint_Patrick's_flag_for_Northern_Ireland_golden_shield.svg

Couldn't find the designer for this one. Link above

A distinct flag to represent NI at sporting events would be better than using the pre-1972 NI flag that was used by the NI team at the Commonwealth games in Delhi this year (2010). Admittedly no one paid these games much attention!

Or more pointedly for the NI Football team which presumably has both Protestant and Catholic players these days. The St Patrick's cross design is in use with the PSNI I notice, so the designer is onto something.

Just getting the colours or particular design of the Ulster hand not to offend anyone would seem to be the problem. I think a simple shield with the Ulster hand (as on the yellow and red province of Ulster flag) would keep Catholics happier. IMO it would be better than the pointed version that is/was on the pre-1972 flag. Keep the colours simple - red and white though.

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its no fact for it

they had it right until they resorted to sheer terrorism,
and by help i meant as i said in anyway that wont get me arrested or killed,

quote
"i hope that either through politics or war there can be one ireland"
but, im in australia, and SF are doing great work and i do know what im talking about but maybe i shouldve been more detailed

Nobody seems to have a problem the State of California calling itself "California" since 1849. Much of California remains in Mexico. Mexico's California is legitimately and legally "California". Moreover, the Irish Republic calls itself "Ireland" when it only consists of 26 of the original, historical 32 counties! Please, demonstrate an informed historical perspective.

Robin Livingstone can kiss it. Can politics be kept out of football? Yes. Was there really a need for some ROI supporters to bring Palestinian flags to their game against Israel 04-06-05? No.

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You thought of leaving australia for Ireland "to help"...

From what you write it sounds like the best way you could help is to stay the fuck away! Get a bit of an education before you go supporting causes you don't understand.

Learn a little bit about what the what the IRA did and then see if you think they "had it right".

my family left armagh to raise a family,
1987, to australia, only to raise there newborn son and daughter in a safer place.
were catholic, mothers family is from armagh and fathers is dumcree

but my opinion is the provisional IRA had it right, the RIRA and CIRA etc are lacking the leadership and structure they need to suceed in uniting ireland,

ive often had the thought of leaving australia for ireland,
to help in anyway i can.
but unless theres a stream of progress from anyone SF RIRA etc theres no reason to senselessly die or be arrested, i hope that either through politics or war there can be one ireland.

One part of Hughes history which many of his admirers always forget to mention is , that he was also a robber theif. Hughes and his brother Roger (now deceased) once stole a huge sum of money from their own father Joe. It was just approx two yeara or so before they left Clady school. The father like many in those days was a small farmer of sorts, and when he sold his livestock at local markets , he was paid in cash as was the case then, and like most farmers also then kept their money in safe places in the home. Hughes and his brother by chance found his secret hideing place, and started to take regular amounts from the stash. They were quite popular with the other youth of the area as they were always flush with money . The theft went on for months , with the father not checking his stash but simply adding to it with more from his lvestock sales. After approx 9 months or so their luck ran out. Their father Joe finally noticed that much of his cash was missing. He called in the local police , and great suspicion was cast upon several near neighbours. The police quickly establihed the two culprits and suddnely its was brushed under the carpet. Its is said locally that Joe their father never forgave particulary Roger as he was a year older than Francis. Roger soon left school and headed of to England were he resided untill his death several years ago. Most local are aware of this unsavoury event in Francis Hughes history but only speak about in hused tones as it were. Just thought it was time the record on Francis Hughes included this unspoken or unwritten part of his life.

Why would anyone listen to what the Daily Mail or the Sun would have to say?

Ulster Needs independence, whats the point of being fought over by two rival powers? never before has Ulster been part of a unified Irish state, why should it be now?

Interesting point.. In fairness I find the mindset and general notion in the Republic (not the SOUTH, it has the most northern part ye know!) is of an (non political) All Ireland, people view the NI counties as traditional areas and dont distinguish between the Republic and North, but I understand this some of this may be related to Nationalist tradition. I must agree, that more people (though I'd argue the majority of people do) must accept the integral part that the (ironically) British part of the country/ island and Orange tradition, plays in the international and historic concept of being Irish.

I am a nationalist and believe that the Orange Order is a anti Catholic organisation who's main aim is to keep the papists in their place, I am all for celibrating your culture, but not when it is all about letting the other side know who is boss. We are living in the 21st century, not 1790, For fuck sake can all the old men who wear their bollar hats and who are suppose to have lived their lives, became wise and who should understand that life is about living and let live, can they not show their wisdow and try to channel their wisdow towards creating a better Ireland for us all. We live in a world that has evolved, that is multi racial, has lots of different religions and people with different political views. I wish the Orange Order would evole with the rest of the world, yet I think this wish is one too much. Sad..............

As an Englishman with roots in Eire who lives on the North Coast of Ulster and also a Catholic ex soldier in the British Army I am saddened by the fact that both sides of the religious community cannot understand how to live together, what a wonderful country this would be if that happened

Like many UK people, I simply believed that the IRA were totally responsible for violence.

Over time I began to realise that everything exists within a framework of events imperfectly remembered over time - often centuries.

I understand that catholics were deliberately excluded in many ways by protestants in NI, and that this was a major source of resentment. The British Army was welcomed by catholics at first due to catholics being attacked by protestants.

The army and police spent many long years paying a high price in blood for what amounts to a lack of understanding of what was the cause. Chasing effects is always futile.

The tragedy is that government - instead of examining all sources and grievances to see if any were justified - automatically backed the existing power which was the source of much of the problem.

The way people thought in 1969 is so very different to today. I used to listen to the voices on TV from both sides shouting at each other like chainsaws on an overdrive of hate, and I did not find it attractive.

I am so glad that common sense has prevailed, in spite of dubious actions on all sides.

I have noticed in my life that as men become more loving and peaceful, their voices change, and become softer and gentler.

The truth is, "Only Fear Attacks!" Zen :-)