On watching Hearts and minds last night it scares me the way the so called leaders in our community think. Are these people for real. As a protestant myself Fr. Reids comments are like the ramblings of of a crazy man, but perhaps even more worrying was Ian Paisley Jnr's reaction when asked about his fathers bigoted coments over the years. It showed the DUP for what they are i.e religious fanatics with frightening fews. How on earth anyone could bring themselves to vote for these loonies is beyond me.

I read the full context of the comments in the Irish times today, and Harold Good's defence of Fr Reid.

The comments were offensive, and over the top, no question.

But he was practically being accused of being a murderer.

The lesson I take out of it (from the comfortable sidelines of Dublin) is that there is a lot of pain on both sides which leads under pressure to unforgivable comments.

And I don't see any easy way to deal with it, but dealt with it must be.

Given that Fr Reid was talking about 1968, when a protestant mob tried to burn down Clonard monastery while the British army looked the other way - and this was brought up by his questioner, not him - some loss of temper is, I think, understandable.

Beano,

It's not that easy. Thanks for the link to Cain. It’s a long article so I’m afraid I skipped to the conclusion but I liked these two statements;

"The Unionist regime was neither as vindictive nor as oppressive as regimes elsewhere in the world with problems of compact or irredentist minorities. The fact remains that, owing to local conditions, the power of the government was used in the interests of Unionists and Protestants, with scant regard for the interests of the region as a whole or for the claims and susceptibilities of the substantial minority."

and

"The most serious charge against the Northern Ireland government is not that it was directly responsible for widespread discrimination, but that it allowed discrimination on such a scale over a substantial segment of Northern Ireland."


I’m recycling my posts a bit but think it’s really Fr Reid's use of the catch-all term "unionist community" that's upset people so much. I think his mind probably pictured militant loyalist thugs but that in reaching for a description of these people he chose the wrong label and in doing so upset decent people like yourself.

But the fact is he’s got a point. And so did the Irish President for that matter. Within militant loyalism there were and still are plenty of would be storm-troopers who would happily round up and execute Catholics on the grounds of their perceived cultural difference. The fact that they've only been able to do so on the small scale of the Shankill Butchers, the LVF and other gangs doesn't mean that they wouldn't happily run a concentration camp or at least ethnically cleanse Ulster of taigs given the chance.

I’m not saying that the government of NI (i.e. the people our grandparents and parents chose to govern) had any role in this but it did show a marked lack of enthusiasm to combat street level sectarianism.

there were and still are plenty of would be storm-troopers who would happily round up and execute Catholics on the grounds of their perceived cultural differences.

Jaffa you're right of course. One look at LoveUlster is enough to show that. Obviously the same can be said about "republicans", but I don't think I can countenance referring to the whole "nationalist community" as Nazis (aside from anything else, my girlfriend would kick my ass).

In fact there are Nazi-esque racist thugs in England too, but it doesn't make it acceptable to refer to the 'English community' as Nazis, so I don't believe in any "point" Reid and McAleese may have had.

I don't know, there was talk last night on one of the politics talk shows (Hearts and Minds?) by Alex Maskey of recognising the problems that existed in the past, which is fair enough, but maybe (just maybe) Unionists would find that easier if Nationalists/Republicans stopped trying to demonise the unionist community, pre-1970 or not, as evil. Perhaps wrong, definitely misguided, but not, for the most part, evil.

Call me a bit dense if you like but there is and never will be any excuse for violence or criminality. No one and I mean noone has the right to take anothers life. Our leaders and ourselves need to stop analizing everything and just get on with it. I have had friends murdered but i am delighted to see the country finally making roads into a civilised society. Ive heard Ian Paisley in the past at rallies and very quickly realised that these people are not the sorts I wanted to aspire to. My friends are my friends , I couldnt care less if they were pink with purple spots.Liv ones life to the best of ones ability and life is great.

Reid was no doubt provoked in this incident, but at that breif moment when the veil of composure slipped, did it reveil a stance on the Irish question not really in kilter with with the ideals of of parity and forgiveness usually espoused by the religious persons on the subject? It sounds more like the rhetoric of the men of violence to me.
The very men towards whom we're expected to trust this mans inpartiality.

What concerns me is that both his comments, and Will Frazers that provoked them ("Butchering priests"), and the commentary from both sides since, reveal a deep divide in understanding, and a depth of hurt on both sides.

Gordon Wilsons are always in short supply.

I don't know what the answer is, but swapping insults isn't it.