This actually sounds like a proper 'bridge building' exercise (ooohh the sinners will be sickened.....), I think all football/sports 'community specific' attire should be left at home. Although it should be remembered that this is a festival that has relevance to all sections of our community and that a fine line should be walked in not pandering to Sinn Fein revisionism and, at the same time, not sterilising the whole thing, like the wacky rainbow shamrocks, (what about the copious use if this symbol in our own community?), and you never know , letting the Prods join in (are yous watching , New York ?) might be the very thing to lift Padraigs Day out of the green afro wig and food colouring in the beer doldrums.........
Anyway let’s hope we can have more people more music more fun from now on (I think I’m still drunk from the weekend.....) and not just more dumb 'Nuremberg' rallies in the west.

"(ooohh the sinners will be sickened)"

I might be wrong, but from what the report says SF on Belfast Council either agreed to it or at least didn't vote against it.

Paul - that's what I took from the phrase "The PC Patrick’s day, recommended by all parties on the council’s powerful policy and resources committee..." too.

yes - yes and their also pro-immigration, that’s what the welcome packs from 'unconnected' Republican groups to new residents in west Belfast were all about, Sinn Fien, unlike ourselves, are a politically sophisticated movement and are media aware enough to see when they have to bite their tongues and go along with things they don’t like, but which to contradict would lead to an opportunity to portray them as a hostile /sectarian movement. SF have been the movers and shakers behind Pats day in Belfast for years, if this is an idea they indorse for its own merits, why didn’t they try to implement it ?
I say SF are an inherently sectarian organisation and although for public image reasons would feel obliged to go along with a thing like this , in reality it (could) deprive them of a rallying point for that sectarianism , and that , beneath Barbra’s lovely smile , will sting.

Or it could be just that they're content to trade off the republican throws in exchange for council funding (and maybe non-republican participation in "their" saints day?)

Just a thought.

"content to trade off the republican throws " - who's this we're talking about again ?

"content to trade off the republican throws " - to appease disenfrangised unionists and open up the day to unionist interpratation and British presence interaction, funny , i thought "republican throws " meant a lot to Gerry and boys (the blanket men in particular )

'if this is an idea they endorse for its own merits, why didn’t they try to implement it ?'
I agree with Paul on this. SF have used St Paddys day to sow discord - it helps maximise their vote. But they are clever enough not to oppose this compromise in public. Unionists getting smart?
Personally I think the rainbow shamrocks are abit too PC. Green shamrocks surely are one of the few symbols that nationalism hasnt tried to claim for their cause?

Shamrocks, flags, team/country/county jerseys, how PC is it possible to be?
Throughout the world, St. Patricks Day is celebrated in 2 ways.
1. A celebration of Irishness
2. A glorious exploitation of Irishness by Guinness/Diageo
One at street level, the other at Boardroom/Shareholder level.
And then we have Belfast.
For me, St Pats day nowadays means nothing more than a glorified RoI soccer match.
Such a shame, I remember going to Mass in St Aggies wearing shamrock, and feeling proud to be Irish. Nowadays it is an excuse for corporate buisiness to make millions in a single day.
What relevance to Belfast?
A section of Belfast's poulation are Irish, another section are British. That is reality.
If the Irish section of the population wish to celebrate their Irishness by waving Irish flags etc. on the patron saint of Irelands day, so be it. If the British section wish to celebrate their Britishness on their day- 12/07 or Ulster Day, so be it.
I have been to St. Patricks grave many times, and have always been left with the feeling that this simple, great man, was responsible for changing forever the Native,Pagan, Gaelige, Celtic way of life, prevelant in Erin until his coming.
Would a good, fitting and worthy celebration of St. Padraig not be the lighting of bonfires throughout the country from the same hills and mountains that we have all been taught that he caused to be lit?
Antrim meets Down meets Armagh meets Louth meets............ leading to a service of Thanks fom Croagh Patrick from all of us????
If we are to enjoy INCLUSIVITY we must respect DIVERSITY
Peace all.

"A section of Belfast's poulation are Irish, another section are British. That is reality.
If the Irish section of the population wish to celebrate their Irishness by waving Irish flags etc. on the patron saint of Irelands day, so be it. If the British section wish to celebrate their Britishness on their day- 12/07 or Ulster Day, so be it."

Con - it all boils back down to the old question of identity. You're already working on the assumption that the non-nationalist "half" of the city is not Irish but just British. Many of them would not agree with that assessment (although the uneducated spides likely would).

Therein lies the fundamental flaw. While Unionists may not fit in with the modern day definition of Irish (and certainly not with the paddywhackery associated with St Patrick's day) many of their ancestors did and even my grandparents (now living abroad) would talk about back home in Ireland.

I think Unionists have lost any sense of Irishness, in no small part due to the behaviour of Irish so-called Republicans over the years and it's a shame. This sort of St Patrick's day celebration could be a first (very small) step to overcoming that and who knows, maybe some day Unionists will come to the conclusion that they're just another type of Irish. I don't think the chance to build bridges should go to waste.

The 12th July is fundamentally political. There's no reason for St Patrick's day to be the same.

I would have to disagree there con, surely in a divided city like Belfast, a bit of political correctness is long over due? To many people the explicitly Irish Gaelic / Republican Symbols paraded in Dublin and Belfast are harmless , but to the Protestants many of them have become the standards of persecutors and murders, I am not saying this is what they mean to you (that would be a ridiculous thing to content ), but surely you can see its ridiculous for anyone to pretend they could ever mean anything else to us, and are therefore best left out of an event if it is preferable that protestants join in (n.b. id say the same thing about Union Flags and Red Hand standards)
To suggest that only one half of the Irish community can determine the character if celebrations is really a bit nasty, It is not simply a celebration of ‘Irish ness’ on the terms and definitions of the majority community, we to have the right to celebrate our ‘Irish ness’ in a way meaningful to us, and if we can all do it together, surely we arrive at a better, more real, celebration of the character of this island and its peoples?.
As for Diageo and their exploitation, well, enough (Irish) people buy into it, so is it the tail waging the dog? Is Diego’s marketing strategy simply to give people what people want? I agree with you though the dancing clown Mick stereotype (endorsed by every one of those people in ‘kiss me I’m Irish’ T- shits and every one with a green wigs on) is embarrassing , (and if you look at what C.S. Lewis said on the subject, it was like this before diageo)
It’s like your definition of what the day means, Mass and Croagh Park? Now if that’s the way you want to go fair enough , its not doing anyone any harm , but to suggest this is an encapsulation of the man and the day that the Protestants can take part in would be farce , there is nothing there that would make us proud, we have a valid historical inheritance from Patrick and we have a right to at least determine how we will celebrate it , like I said I don’t want your day to be sterilised, (and nor ours) but I do feel that de-politicising the events in Belfast, Dublin and New York would lift the Tone (;>), and be conducive to ‘bridge building’ if we can have at least some commonality in the celebrations, i.e. we work together to find a meaning in Patrick’s day that we can share openly , not simply force all who would partake to comply blindly to the definitions of the majority community. Such relentless pursuit of monoculture can only lead to an adoration of our joined history and a virtual cultural apartheid. As for corporations making millions, it pays wages and puts bear in the taps, and I would seriously content its not exploitation, it’s the market wants, the sense of Irish ness the Irish crowds buy into.

”A section of Belfast's population are Irish, another section are British. That is reality.
If the Irish section of the population wishes to celebrate their Irish ness by waving Irish flags etc. on the patron saint of Ireland’s day, so be it. If the British section wish to celebrate their British ness on their day- 12/07 or Ulster Day, so be it.”

Such a polarisation of traditions would be (and is) a disaster. Compromise must be reached to make everyone comfortable with different events, dignified cooperation rather than total separation seems to me to be a better option (that’s co-operation and not Republican domination)

” Would a good, fitting and worthy celebration of St. Padraig not be the lighting of bonfires throughout the country from the same hills and mountains that we have all been taught that he caused to be lit?
Antrim meets Down meets Armagh meets Louth meets............ leading to a service of Thanks from Croagh Patrick from all of us”

That sounds lovely, us Orangies love a big bonfire anyway, and it would be less plastic than the current trot out, more romantic, although how about instead of a thanks giving at Croagh Park, how about Slemish, to avoid politicising the event? Republicanism is a world away from Patrick and when you look at St. drunken Mick’s day on the T.V. – don’t you thing their demeaning quest for popularity has turned the day into enough of a freak show already ?


”If we are to enjoy INCLUSIVITY we must respect DIVERSITY
Peace all. “ Amen.

Woah there boys, I think I should clarify what I meant, for a start I am not referring to Croke Park, I am talking about the highest mountain in Ireland, that is a place of pilgrimmage to many who find it spiritually enlightening to climb in their bare feet.(?!) in honour of St. Patrick.
I did not say that it is a feast day for Catholics and no Protestants need apply, that would be an apalling sectarian attitude which has no place in our society.
Politicising St. Patricks day is a travesty, and should not be tolerated, whether it is SF in Belfast, or the AOH in NYC.
I believe it is right that a parade should be held in Belfast, I also believe it should be open to all. Obviously that means no sectarian symbols should be displayed. To me, the Irish flag is not such a symbol, but I accept that to many, it is. Therefore, leave them at home.
I would like to see nothing more than a return to the days when people from the Falls felt free to do their shopping on the Shankill, or wee lads from Andytown would watch the parades on the 12th ( the Field used to be at Finaghy, is that correct? )
Of course, the days when the Shankill was surpassed as a shopping destination, only by Royal Ave. are sadly no more, but that is not really what I' m talking about.
I realise how it must have come across when I mentioned the Irish/British sections of the population, but if I had said "you are Irish too, get with the program" is it not fair to say you might have responded with I'm not Irish and you can't tell me I am?????
We are all Irish, our definitions of Irishness may differ, but then so do our cultures, sports, languages etc. My definition of Irishness is no more valid than yours.
Being Irish is not the sole preserve of SF. There are Irish speaking, GAA devotees, who stand proudly beneath the Irish flag, who loathe SF. ( ever read the Irish Independant?) It means different things to different people.
Protestants have every bit as much right to St. Patrick as Catholics, after all he is buried in the CoI churchyard in Downpatrick.
Perhaps if he were to come today, he would use the shamrock to teach us the error of our ways, Catholic, Protestant and you guessed it, Dissenter, being three parts of a whole. ( does that sound political? )
I hope I've explained myself a bit better this time, bloody hard on a mobile!!
Perhaps someday, Protestants will be able to look on the Tricolour for what it means to Catholics, and Catholics can look on the Union flag for what it means to Protestants, rather than each seeing it as a symbol of oppression. If by banning both at a St Patricks Day parade we can move a step closer to that day, then I'm all for it.

Fair play Con - your ability to look towards the future and not the past is admirable - but still, posting once would have been enough

thats me told

Isn't funny how smooth things can go when we leave Gerry and Ian out ?

I think your ideas sound great Con(although Dissenters dont believe in pilgrimage for rewards or Blessings, seeing it as a superfical act, but who cares we could go to the mountain just for fun.)

you know , I went on about how nice all this would be , and I really try to mean it , but then I see things like this :
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=668743

and the hatred I feel towards the Irish Republic , and the total repugnance I feel at having anything to do with it, can not be expressed in words.

More penny pinching by our government.

Many people down here would be as unhappy about it as you are, Paul.

But I suggest you ought not base your opinion of us on any one newspaper.

If I would to do the same for Unionists.....

About Cons suggestion, this link

Croagh Patrick

although Dissenters dont believe in pilgrimage for rewards or Blessings

Neither do Catholics - there is no magic in Pilgrimages - they are just a useful way to focus the mind on God. That brings rewards.

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c3a2.htm